Mike Donehey (Finding God’s Will and Fighting Loneliness)

Mike Donehey has spent a lot of time thinking about God’s will for our lives. Is God’s will a career choice, a narrow path, a tightrope? What if God’s will for us is really about delighting in God and seeking His heart before anything else? In this episode, Mike shares about his journey with Tenth Avenue North, the epidemic of male loneliness, a turning point in his marriage, and even his thoughts on AI music. 

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https://www.instagram.com/mikedonehey/ 
https://www.instagram.com/tenthavenuenorth/ 

Get his new book The Lonely Wolf’s Club! 
https://tenthavenuenorthshop.myshopify.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

He said to me, he goes, Man, don't you just love how God uses these songs? Like five loves, two fish, man. He writes this little song, God just feeds all his people. And I said, Sometimes. Sometimes I said a few times.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

There's been a couple times that's happened for me, but most of the time, it's like a year's worth of perfume. Just on Jesus' feet.

SPEAKER_08 0:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

And you go, is that enough? And you can rest assured, any gift given to Jesus is not wasted.

SPEAKER_06 0:38

This season of In the Middle of It is brought to you in part by Trendy Bear Apparel. Trendy Bear Apparel is a local Nashville clothing company that sells the coziest sweatshirts, crew necks, t-shirts, and more. If you're watching on video, you can see me modeling my very own trendy bear crew neck sweatshirt. Every trendy bear item is hand-screened by Papa Bear himself. So you can be sure that your order is made with love. And the best part is, I have a discount code for you. Okay, you can use in the middle 20 for 20% off your order. That's in the middle 2-0 for 20% off your order. So go to trendybear.com and use the code in the middle20 for 20% off your order. Hey guys, it's Hanna Kerr. Welcome back to In the Middle of It. I am so excited for today's episode. Today we have Mike Donahy, who is an author, a speaker, an artist, and the frontman of a band that really is just getting started called 10th Avenue North. Just kidding. We all know who 10th Avenue North is. He's been the lead singer for over 20 years. And after a four-year hiatus, they're back in better than ever. Um, Mike is someone who speaks the truth, but he speaks the truth in love, and I really admire that about him. And I'm so excited for today. So please welcome Mike Donahy.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:58

Hi.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Thanks, Hannah.

SPEAKER_06 1:59

Hey, thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

It feels good to be introduced. You go, man, maybe I've done more with my life than I thought I had.

SPEAKER_06 2:07

You know, my original draft, I was like, he has multi, multi-gold, platinum records, and I was like, you know what? He knows all that, and we all know that. I'm just gonna give him the the basics.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

I was just reading some Soren Kierkegaard last night, as one does.

SPEAKER_06 2:23

As one does in their wind-down routine.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

And he talked about like the the despair that comes when you try to build your identity on anything that isn't relational to God. Like, in other words, I've trying to reduce this down into like a simple way to say it.

SPEAKER_06 2:42

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I need that It's a bad question to say, who am I?

SPEAKER_06 2:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Because any answer could lead you into despair, building an identity, trying to answer that question. But sorry, this is really heavy to start. It's great. But uh a better question would be whose am I?

SPEAKER_06 3:00

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Yeah, and those answers uh will uh potentially keep you from despair.

SPEAKER_06 3:07

I love that. Who do I belong to? I like that. Well, welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited for today because I feel like usually I have like pages and pages of prep, but this time I was like, I know that Mike Donahy has something to say, and I feel like I just get to be here and I'm gonna love that.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Great. So, you know, Proverbs says where there's many words, uh, like foolishness is not absent. So here we go.

SPEAKER_06 3:32

Here we go. Okay, well, the podcast is called In the Middle of It. So usually I start with a rapid fire game called Love It, Hate It, in the Middle of It. Okay. Um, so I'm gonna give you a list of five things. You tell me if you love it, hate it, or feel neutral, like in the middle of it. And you can explain your answer or you don't have to. So you just you just do what what you feel led to do, okay. Ready?

SPEAKER_02 3:54

I feel strong to quite strong about this game.

SPEAKER_06 3:56

Oh, perfect. I love it. Okay, number one is ChatGPT.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Ooh.

SPEAKER_06 4:01

I know it starts with the hardest.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Uh in the middle of it. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:05

I feel the same way. I'm like, I Chat GPT has kind of been like the third parent for us right now with our baby. I'm like constantly like, is this normal? Should I be worried about this? But then I'm like, I hate that I'm doing that.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

You know, here's the thing about AI in general that I will say. So I've I heard this interview. I think this is really on it. The problem isn't so much AI, it's the deception around it. Right? Like, so the problem with AI artists isn't that there's an AI artist. The problem is you lie to me and tell me it's a real artist. I know. So it's really the deceit, I think, that is the most dangerous thing about it.

SPEAKER_06 4:42

That's actually what one of my questions for you today is what do you think about AI Christian music? Like, or just in general, but we can come back to it later. But I'm just curious what you think about that. I feel like if there's one person I want to know what they think, it's you.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

So I have some thoughts.

SPEAKER_06 4:57

Perfect. Okay, number two is reading. I know you're an author, but do you enjoy reading?

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Love it.

SPEAKER_06 5:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Love it.

SPEAKER_06 5:03

I mean, obviously you started saying you were reading Kierkegaard or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

I yeah, I I love it. I mean we are living in an increasingly illiterate society. It's true. It's just such it's so sad because your brain, you rob yourself of all that creative energy to picture what it is you're reading.

SPEAKER_06 5:23

That's so true.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

If you only watch visual media. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:27

Okay, number three, professional sports. Are you a sports fan?

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Love it. Love it. A lot of people don't know that about me. I was talking to your parents about the Bills right before we came in. Go Bills. Go Bills. You know, that's really just I just feel so much for Josh Allen. Which I was watching the playoff game and they said he's 29.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

I know. I'm 29.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Yeah, well, I'm like, he's lived so much life. He deserves it. And I not to belittle it, but he's 29. He's got a lot of life ahead.

SPEAKER_06 5:53

He's got a lot of life ahead, but I hope this is our year. I don't know when this is gonna come out. So if the Bills have won the Super Bowl, just say that we're we're fans already.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

We're gonna sound smarter dumb depending.

SPEAKER_06 6:05

Okay, number four, TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Uh yeah. So used to hate it. Now I'm in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_06 6:13

Okay. What changed your mind?

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Uh I've just heard stats, you know, 84% of new music being discovered is discovered through TikTok.

SPEAKER_07 6:23

Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Um and I and I have a lot of shame around it because we were the first band I knew on TikTok.

SPEAKER_06 6:31

Really?

SPEAKER_02 6:31

We were on TikTok the first, I feel like when it first came out.

SPEAKER_06 6:35

You were like the TikTok hipster. Like you knew.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Like, and I remember we were on tour with Lecrae. And I was telling him we were on TikTok. And Lecrae, which I feel like hip-hop artists are usually a little more ahead of the trends than a lot of other bands, he's like, You're on TikTok. Who's on TikTok? You know? And uh, and that and then you know, when the band disbanded, we just stopped posting to TikTok. And I went, man, I would be so much more successful if we're just stuck with it, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:07

So it's crazy. I feel like with someone that's been doing this so long, you've probably seen how much it's changed. Like since you started. Like, I remember even when I started 10 years ago, I think I had like a Facebook page and a YouTube channel, and I didn't have TikTok, Instagram, all those things. Like, it's just changed so much since even I've been doing it. Yeah, and it's crazy the amount of pressure that we feel to like generate all this content and just be like, this is my job. It seems like this is my job as much as music is my job, which I do not love.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

So marketing has always been ubiquitous with popular music. It's just someone else was in charge of doing it.

SPEAKER_06 7:47

Yeah, now we are in charge of doing it.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yes, yeah. And and I I totally agree. And it's why I I stayed away. I actually really begrudgingly was even on Instagram, uh, very begrudgingly on TikTok. Um, and then I had this epiphany because another artist was complaining about having to make content. And I went, if I was an artist in the 60s, I would have figured out a way to get my music on a vinyl. Because that was the way people took in music. In the 70s, I would have figured out a way to get it on eight-track, then I would have figured out how to get it on a cassette, then I would have figured out how to put it on a CD, figure out how to put it on streaming, and now, fortunately or unfortunately, yeah, figure out how to put it on social media.

SPEAKER_08 8:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

And the cool part, if you can kind of like zoom back, the cool part about uh music discovery through social media is it really puts the uh power back in the hands of the artists in a lot of ways. You could say you're a slave to the algorithm or whatever. Um, and I think everyone has to kind of find their own healthy rhythm. Yeah. Um, I was talking to a young artist named Natalie Lane, who she she realized she was just getting consumed by it. So she went, I'm just gonna post once a week. Yeah. And that's what I do. Yeah. Um, and I had probably my big you didn't ask this question, but I figured the whole point of this is to expound. Uh I had a real big shift when I was actually on tour with Big Daddy Weave and uh I was doing direct support, and this is Katie Nicole had just come on the radio, and she was the first of three, and we did a QA, and obviously she was exploding on TikTok. That's how her song blew up. And so this young teenage girl like raised her hand, she's like, Katie, I have a question for you. How do you blow up on TikTok? And Katie gave her great advice, like algorithm, do what's true for you, don't be afraid to put yourself out there, all these really good tips. And but there was some something about I went, I said, Can I ask you a question? The girl goes, She's like, What? I go, um, how many followers do you have? She goes, terrible. I go, what's terrible? 724 or whatever. She knew the exact number. Whatever it was, something like that. And I went, 724? She went, yeah, I know. I go, that's amazing. She goes, what? I go, you are crushing Jesus at the followers game. He only had 12. And she goes, he spoke to thousands of people. I said, have any of your posts had over a thousand views? She said, Well, yeah, a couple. I go, huh. Isn't that interesting? I go, maybe instead of worrying about how many followers can I get, worry about how can I serve the ones I already have.

SPEAKER_06 10:30

That's really good.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

And but it was terrible. Once I said, I went, Oh, that's me. I'm not doing that. But that shift is really taking the burden off of it. Where and it and it really changed what I post. Um to just go, is this helpful? That's kind of the first question I asked before I post something. Um it's been a lot. So I'm I went from hating TikTok to no. It can be a useful tool.

SPEAKER_06 10:59

I like how you use social media. I feel like you do it well to where it doesn't feel like this overproduced like music video for every song. It's like just you being you, and I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

It it's a fun moment where authenticity and vulnerability have always been high priorities for me. And it that's the part of it that I'm enjoying is seeing because everyone can produce a slick-looking high-value thing now, especially with AI, um it's like driving people into authentic places.

SPEAKER_06 11:35

Yeah, which is pretty cool. I like that. Okay, last one, love it, hate it in the middle of it, exercise.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

How do you not love it? What else are you gonna do? Die? What else are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_04 11:47

Sit there?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

I did it, you know, my my drummer that I started tend to have a north with, Jason. So a lot of people assume that because our band disbanded that there was a breakup. We're uh we still live on the same street, we're still great friends, and once a week for the last three and a half years, we get together at this park and we do a murph. Yes. I did that this morning before.

SPEAKER_06 12:08

This morning? Can you tell the people what the murph is? Because I did look it up.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

A murph is I can't believe this. It does, it sounds it sounds worse than it actually is.

SPEAKER_05 12:19

No, it is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

So, first of all, a murph is a nickname for some guy, he was a Navy SEAL or something, named Murphy, and he died in action. But apparently his daily workout, his daily warm-up was this routine. So it wasn't even his work, it was his warm-up. So, so I do it once a week. So I do this guy's daily warm-up once a week. So before you start thinking it's crazy. But uh, you run a mile, uh huh, then you do a hundred pull-ups, two hundred push-ups, three hundred squats, and then you run another mile. And you're meant to do it in a 20-pound weight vest.

unknown 12:53

That is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

It did it's it's very crazy. Once you, you know, it's like anything. I have been reading, I was saying this to a buddy who I got talked into doing the Murph today for the first time. I said, uh, because there's a group of us that kind of meet. I said, um Harvard, I just read these again, I like to read. I read these Harvard studies that are saying we used to think that as you age, there's this intense m muscle degradation that happens just from age. But more and more they're finding that it actually has more to do with unuse.

SPEAKER_06 13:30

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Like atrophy kind of yeah, when you're 80 and you haven't worked out since you're 50, that's 30 years of not working.

SPEAKER_06 13:36

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Right. Uh so you know, I'm just trying to fight off decrepancy.

SPEAKER_06 13:41

Decrepancy, it's great. I can't believe that. When I was preparing for this, I was like asking my husband, I was like, what should I ask Mike about? And he was like, You should ask him about the Murph. And I was like, the what?

SPEAKER_03 13:50

We do.

SPEAKER_06 13:51

He was like, he does the Murph every week. I think you mentioned that when we played that writer's round last year or something. And I would have to train for like an entire year to do the murph.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

What's so what's great about the murf?

SPEAKER_06 14:01

Or longer, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

What's great about the murf is you know, I'm not even doing it the way you're supposed to. So you're supposed to do it all 100 pull-ups in a row. And then all 200 push-ups.

SPEAKER_06 14:11

If I could do one, yes, I'd feel great.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

My sister's come out and done it with us.

SPEAKER_06 14:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

And she can't do a ton of pull-ups, so what she does is she'll jump up and then just slow descend.

SPEAKER_06 14:22

Okay, which is hard anyway.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Which is how you work up to a pull-up. ChatGPT would tell you that.

SPEAKER_06 14:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Have you seen that commercial for ChatGPT? It's a guy like, I want to be able to do a pull-up. Oh, that's funny. Like him doing his first pull-up and then it shows the ChatGPT, you know, structure.

SPEAKER_06 14:37

I love it. That's so funny. I love that you're an exercise guy. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

ChatGPT could get you there.

SPEAKER_06 14:42

I know, it's true. I have heard of people being like, if you just put, you know, I need a workout plan in ChatGPT, it would tell you what to do. Yeah. No. Chat GPT knows me uh unfortunately pretty well, and I think it knows that I would need to slow start.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Yeah, uh some people don't know this about me, but I actually didn't start playing guitar till I was a senior in high school because I was so sports-driven. Basketball, soccer were my two big ones. And uh I still play basketball three times a week. Do you broke my nose last year playing basketball? Wow. Sprained my ankle. It's fantastic. Uh so maybe there's maybe there is something to the age thing. Um, but my senior high school, we were driving to school, and my buddy flipped a car and I got thrown out. No way.

SPEAKER_06 15:31

No.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Um, it's in one of my books. It's a great book. You should read the book. Yeah. But in the book, I tell you the story. And I got thrown out of the car and uh broke my back in two places, broke my head right here. Was in, you know, they didn't think I was gonna live, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_06 15:49

This is when you were a senior in high school. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

So I was 17 at the time, and ended up having to l lie on my back for uh two months. And it would that was the first time I asked for a guitar. Wow. Because I was just bored. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:04

And that's he was like, listen, I'm not gonna make this happen to you, but I am gonna use it so much to make you on this whole new trajectory. That's so cool. I love it. Okay, well, that was that was the game. You did an excellent job.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

I feel really strong about it. Can we play another one?

SPEAKER_06 16:21

Yeah, let's let's do it. I have another one for later, so you just have to wait. Um, okay, so the point of this podcast is talking about how really I think God does amazing work in the middle of life. Like, I think for me, I'm always looking at my life in the mountaintop moments, the times that are like, this is what God did in this day. But I think as I get older, I realize that there's so much goodness in the in-between times between those big milestones. Um, and so I started this podcast to ask people, what are you in the middle of right now? Something that isn't polished, it's not finished, you know, where where are you in the middle of your life right now?

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Yeah. I love I love the idea. Uh I just saw the I Can Only Imagine Two movie, like a pre-screening, and they really explore this idea of holding gratitude and grief, like the tension in between.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Um, I also have a solo song called In the Middle. Which is about this very idea.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

That means it must be a good one.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Oh, it's fantastic.

unknown 17:27

It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

I think, you know, I'm in the middle. I feel like I'm always in the middle.

SPEAKER_06 17:33

I know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

I I'm sure everyone feels like that on some level. I feel like I am in the middle of huge transition of not leaving music behind, but stepping into owning the fact that a lot of people seem to connect with the way that I speak and talk and communicate. And I mean, I've written two books, I'm about to release a third book. Uh, so that shouldn't come as a great surprise to me. Uh, but I think I've been so afraid to sort of pick up that part because I feel like our culture says you have to pick.

SPEAKER_06 18:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Like you can't you can't be a speaker and in a band.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

You have to choose.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

And I'm just a big believer that I feel like whatever God's gifted us to do, we can walk in.

SPEAKER_08 18:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Um and we have to be you know be smart about it. But I feel like I'm really in the middle of trying to pick up the mantle, a new mantle that I feel like God's asking me to if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 18:49

I do feel like our our culture tells us we should be pressured to just do one thing. I mean, even like the social media algorithm is like you should have an a niche, like one thing. And I've struggled with that so much too in in my career of like, do I want to do CCM or do I want to do worship? Like, what is more my heart? And I remember I think I was like 20 years old and I sat down with a mentor and she was like, Hannah, the will of God for your life is not a tight rope, it's an open field. And if you're walking with God, you have so much freedom to to do whatever it is that He's calling you to do, and that you don't have to be worried about walking this tightrope and making a mistake. Like if you make one misstep, you've totally missed God's will.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

That's what I'll say.

SPEAKER_06 19:34

And um, I've never forgotten about that, and I feel like it's just given me so much freedom to be like, if God is calling me in this season to to be more of a speaker, you know, whatever it is, like it's because that's part of his will for me, and I don't have to worry about getting it wrong. Um, I just need to follow him in that. So I don't know, but I just I relate to that as well of just feeling pulled two different ways, even right now. Like, I'm a brand new mom, and I'm like, how can I be a mom and an artist at the same time and not let either one fail, you know? So I know that you have a book about this very concept.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Yeah, you know, I've I mean it's just so important to not equate the will of God for your life as a particular calling that he's had on your life. Yeah, because and I think callings is a better way to say it. I actually heard John Foreman saying that in an interview. I don't have a calling on my life, I have callings on my life. Yeah, right. I'm a brother and I'm a husband and I'm a bandmate and I'm a songwriter, and uh like you have all these different giftings, uh, but the will of God scripturally is always about the heart, it seems. Like this is the will of God for your life, is in Thessalonians, right? It says, be joyful always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances. So joy, gratitude, prayer. It seems God's saying my will for your life isn't necessarily the career path you're on. Right. That's part of my plan for your life.

SPEAKER_07 21:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

But as far as my will for your life, um, like if my if God's will for my life is a certain career, right, then what happens when it doesn't work out. Yeah, what happens when I what happens when I break my fingers and I can't play anymore? Or get a brain injury, can't write lyrics anymore, lose my voice.

SPEAKER_06 21:28

If you feel like God's calling you to a certain career and it it's not successful, you know? Because then it's like, oh, does God not is he not faithful to me? It's like, no, no, no, that's not that's not how that works, you know?

SPEAKER_02 21:40

As if it being successful determines whether or not God wants you doing it.

SPEAKER_06 21:46

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Because I really believe that there's a lot of things God wants me to do that he knows will fail in the world's eyes. And that's that's part of his desire for me.

SPEAKER_04 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Is to not attach my identity to the things I do for him.

SPEAKER_07 22:06

Right?

SPEAKER_02 22:06

This goes back to Soren Kierkegaard.

SPEAKER_07 22:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Like in this is love. Not that we love God, but that he loved us.

SPEAKER_07 22:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Right. So that I attach my identity onto his movement toward me, not my movement toward him. Yes. And so his will for my life is not so much a career path, it's it's the posture of my heart while I do it.

SPEAKER_08 22:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Like, and that's what my first book is kind of about, you know, is does God want me to be a doctor? Maybe. You know it's a better question. What kind of doctor would I be if I was one?

SPEAKER_06 22:45

I like that.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Right.

SPEAKER_06 22:46

Also, we're talking about finding God's life for my will.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Which confuses a lot of people. No, it's great.

SPEAKER_06 22:51

I practiced as I was getting ready this morning. I was like, finding God's life for my will, not God's will for my life. I like it. I like it a lot. Yeah. It's very songwriter of you.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Well, you know, the best you can, you use words to communicate an idea. And I feel like most people who ask, I need to know what God's will for my life is. What they're really asking is, I need God's life to invade my will.

SPEAKER_06 23:14

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

I need to know what's me and what's Him. And so why not just ask it the other way?

SPEAKER_06 23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Like where do I need to shift and surrender and let go?

SPEAKER_06 23:26

I feel like in my life, so much of the root of my anxiety is being worried about messing up, like worried about choosing the wrong thing, or like, what if I didn't hear God right? And I feel like the times of my life where I feel the most at peace are when I just listen to God and just do it. Instead of overanalyzing and having analysis paralysis and being like, but I don't know how it's gonna work out in five years. Like, no, I kind of just need to like do it, and the peace comes after doing it.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Yeah, and and let's be honest, we're usually afraid just because of the final metrics. And I was having this argument with somebody about a particular artist who's very successful right now, and they said, Well, it's so clear that God's favor is on so and so that's tough, yeah. And and what I said was, I mean, is God's favor on? And then I started naming artists who don't say that they're Christian, don't say they're following Jesus, but are massive, yeah, much more massive than the artists they were talking about. And I go, we gotta be so careful not to equate favor with metric.

SPEAKER_08 24:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

And and here's I don't know how exactly theologically sound this is, but I'm gonna say and we can discuss it. But I think um I think we often think of favor as something we can measure wide. Like man measures the outside, God measures the heart.

SPEAKER_07 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

So maybe this is too simplistic, but could it be that we can never know favor by measuring width? We can only determine favor by measuring depth.

SPEAKER_06 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

And that's not something you can hang your hat on.

SPEAKER_06 25:26

Yeah. Cause I do feel like it's amazing if God's favor and man's favor combine, like like when an artist is successful, you're like, oh, the favor of God must be on them, but it's really the favor of man that's on them if they're successful, because that's who's buying the music and consuming the content and all the things. And sometimes it seems like God's favor and man's favor comes together in one artist, and that's awesome. But I don't think that's always the case, even in Christian music. Like sometimes, like when I see you know, Cece Wynans get up there and accept her dove award by singing glory to God, I'm like, Oh, I love that. Like, that's what I want to see. And I feel like the favor of man and the favor of God came together in that moment, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

I like that, but I never thought of it like that.

SPEAKER_06 26:12

I don't know. I just feel like sometimes I think when an artist gets on stage and they accept an award and they say, God is so faithful to me. I just in my heart, I'm like, He is, but it has nothing to do with that right there, you know. Um, and I remember I'm I think it was the first time I met you, or maybe the second time we were at momentum, and you definitely don't remember this. We were backstage and you told me the story of when you got your Dove Award and it broke in your hands, like as you were accepting the award or something. And I've never forgotten about that. Like I think about that often of just it's so nice to be honored by something, to hold an award and be like, This is great. Thank you, God, for this blessing. It's great, but it's not everything.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

I you know it's so funny, it's the one that statue is the one award I keep in my studio. I love it, and I keep it. I never so the bottom for those watching, the bottom of the double where they hand it to me, and we had one, you know, song of the year or something, and I'm like giving the speech, and then as soon as I stop talking, I turn and the bottom falls off in my hands as we're walking backstage.

SPEAKER_05 27:22

So prophetic.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

I was like, What in the world? And I get backstage and there's a girl with a headset on who's directing traffic, and they had us pause there for a second, they were trying to figure out what room we're supposed to go in or whatever, and she looks at me like this, you know. I'm like, I don't know. That's weird. And then she goes, Hey, I need to tell you something. I didn't know Jesus, didn't know that he loves me. I was in college last year, my roommate played me that song, and it was the first time I believed God loves me.

SPEAKER_05 27:53

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Okay, yeah, okay, okay, go on. And I was like, What? And it was just such a perfect juxtaposition to go the inside of this thing is hollow. Like it's I I love what you're saying. Sometimes the favor of man and the favor of God combine. Um, but just to be remembered, that's ultimately the real treasure in these songs and what's so cool about it.

SPEAKER_06 28:19

Yep. And just like if it mattered to one person, God loves that girl enough that he would have made you write that song just for her.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Or let's go another step. Or if it doesn't affect one person.

SPEAKER_04 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

So here's something. Again, same tour, I was out with Big Daddy Weave, and there Things happen on the Big Daddy Weave. Apparently, their piano player, he said to me, he goes, Man, don't you just love how God uses these songs? Like five loves, two fish, man. You write this little song, God just feeds all these people. And I said, Sometimes. Sometimes I said a few times.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

There's been a couple times that's happened for me, but most of the time, it's like a year's worth of perfume.

SPEAKER_08 29:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Just on Jesus' feet.

SPEAKER_08 29:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

And you go, is that enough? Is that a good enough reason to do it?

SPEAKER_08 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Um and that's really helpful for me to go.

SPEAKER_06 29:20

That is helpful.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

To go sometimes, you know, you work on these songs and you're so convinced this is such a good song, and everyone's gonna connect to it and it's gonna be amazing. And then nobody cares. Yeah, it's your worst performing single, nobody adds it, you know, all the stuff. And you can rest assured that anything, any gift given to Jesus is not wasted. And we get so worried because we're measuring the width again.

SPEAKER_08 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

And we're measuring what God decided to do with it to dictate whether it was worth doing.

SPEAKER_06 30:02

Yeah. I think there's such a freedom too in doing something without being worried about how it performs and just being like, I know that if nobody heard this song, I would still love it and I still offered it. And that's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

We need we need to study the Japanese philosophy a little more. Have you seen this Venn diagram called Ikigai? I think it's called Ikigai. Uh so in Finding God's Life for My Will, I kind of end it with this Frederick Biegner quote. And Frederick Biegner says, Your calling is where your deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet.

SPEAKER_07 30:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Which I love. Such a great way to say it.

SPEAKER_07 30:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

So for those of you guys watching, we tend, at least in Christian circles, we tend toward one or the other. We either say, do what you love, love what you do, that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_08 30:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Well, if that's the only question I ask, I'll just become a narcissistic jerk, you know, that it's all about me.

SPEAKER_08 31:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

However, another thing we like to say, especially in the church, is what does the world need? The world needs wells in Africa. You need to learn African, you need to go there and do it. I agree there are some people who need to do that. But uh what happens is people who are not wired to do certain things feel thrust into certain places. And then what ends up happening is they end up getting burnt out.

SPEAKER_08 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Not to say God can't put you in a season of doing something that's uncomfortable. I think he does that on purpose also. But the idea is the goal of God would be to wire you with this very unique wiring, and then using that wiring to make things and do things that actually bless the world.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

The Iki guy model then adds okay, but there's two other things you have to consider. You have to consider what you're actually good at. Because you can love making music and feel like it's serving people, but you're not actually any good at it.

SPEAKER_07 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

And then there's this fourth aspect of just being a human where can I make money doing it?

SPEAKER_07 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

And so I think all of us are trying to figure out how can I do all four of those things all at the same time. And sometimes uh sometimes you get to and sometimes you don't. And sometimes I'm doing something just because I know I can make money at it, and that's not necessarily wrong.

SPEAKER_07 32:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

If the reason I'm going out and make money is to serve my family and yeah, bless them.

SPEAKER_06 32:35

So I like that. I like that Venn diagram. What's it called again?

SPEAKER_02 32:39

I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure. Um I just looked at it this week. Ikigai. I think it's I K I G A I. It ends with AI. I don't have my phone. Red flag. I don't have my phone on me, otherwise I'd live in it.

SPEAKER_06 32:56

Oh man, I love that. Also, I I haven't read God's life for my will, but I want to, okay? I really do. As I looked up on Amazon last night, I'm gonna order it. It's a bestseller, okay?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

So should all of you.

SPEAKER_06 33:08

So should all of you. Um, but the whole concept of the book reminds me of Psalm 37, 4, which is delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. I feel like growing up, I always thought like, okay, so that just means that like God gives me what I want, you know, the things I desire. But I feel like what the book makes me think of is the fact that if we are first delighting in the Lord, if he is our delight, like just being with him, knowing him, then eventually our desires shift to be his desires more. Like we're not just asking God, we're walking with God, and then we're like, and give me this thing that you haven't designed me for, or you haven't, you know, wired me for. I feel like the more I walk with God, the more my desires shift away from maybe what I thought I wanted to something that maybe he wants for me. Um I don't know. It just makes me think of that as I was as I was reading the description and all that.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. You're the Lord's prayer is our Father, then your kingdom come, your will be done. So your kingdom come and your will, wanting to do God's will, um, flows out of understanding that He's your Abba and He's your Father, right?

SPEAKER_06 34:21

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

We're we're talking about the thing we're in the middle of, we just had a meeting yesterday uh about what it would look like to do a conference about finding God's life for your will. Yeah. Uh just kind of I feel like it it seems like a thought that really resonates with people.

SPEAKER_08 34:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

We're always we're always in the middle of what does God want for me next? And what does that look like?

SPEAKER_08 34:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

And how can I know the trajectory I'm on is a God-blessed trajectory. Yeah. And not a me blessed trajectory.

SPEAKER_06 34:58

Do you feel like you've experienced a lot of that in your life? Like just wondering what God's will for you is, and have you ever done something that you thought, oh, maybe that wasn't what I was supposed to do? Or how have you experienced that, like the concept of your book in your life?

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Oh my gosh. I've I you're gonna we're doing another episode of my wife. Yeah, I can't. She would just laugh right now if she was sitting here. That I am such a chronic second guesser regret uh wallower. Uh you know, I'm I'm always going, Oh god, could I have done that? And it's why this last 10th Avenue North record we put out is called learning to trust. Um, it's not learned how to trust. Right. It's yeah, I constantly feel like I am uh starting to learn how to trust. And that it's something I have to practice over and over and over.

SPEAKER_06 36:00

Yep. I love that. That's great. And you have a new book coming out. I don't know how much you can say about it. Yeah. But you do have a new book coming out. I wore the hat. Yeah, I was gonna say there's a there's a Easter egg up in this set right now if you're watching on video.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

What can you tell us about this? This is what this so this book is like, I don't know if this is the right thing to do, but one of my best mates here, he does a lot of emotional check-in work and emotional intelligence work with groups of men. Cool. And my other best friend, he does that almost exclusively. He has a thing where he kind of uh attacks it from like a his is more like military meets challenge, physical challenge, and then my other buddy, it's more like heart.

SPEAKER_06 36:48

It's like doing the murf and then going to a therapy session right after.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

So, for instance, my one buddy I did I helped out with one of his retreats, and we had to hike 12 miles up a mountain with weight vests on, and then you get to the top, and there's this mountaintop cemetery, and as the sun sets, is everyone take their weight vests off, turn on their headlamps, and everyone has to write their own eulogy. Whoa. So just light work, very much murph meets heart, you know. Love that. Uh, but what I what I have noticed and feel is there really is, especially for men, and the book isn't necessarily geared just for men, but uh as a man I could say this that I I feel like there is a loneliness epidemic for men. And have you seen that meme, the greatest miracle Jesus ever pulled off was having twelve friends in his adulthood? Yeah. So good. And and so just seeing that men, man, and all of us are just desperate for real community, real connection. And my buddy here, he's a psychologist and does a lot of great work, and he's just had a lot, he has a lot of really great practical tools of how to approach building the community we feel like we're made for. Yeah. And uh so we just decided to write a little book together, and um, yeah, it'll come out sometime soon. But the Lonely Wolfs Club, because a lone wolf is a lonely wolf.

SPEAKER_06 38:22

Oh wow. The Lonely Wolfs Club. Yeah. It's coming out, you guys.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Which this hat was a misprint, and it was supposed to say a lone wolf is a lonely wolf, but under inside it says a lone wolf is a lone wolf. Which is pretty it's pretty meta.

SPEAKER_05 38:37

But uh A Lone Wolf is a lone wolf, is a lone wolf is a lone wolf. You know, there's nothing deep about that.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

There's no lone wolves in the kingdom of God. Tenneth Abby North had a song called No Man is an Island.

SPEAKER_06 38:50

Yeah. Um just a small, just a small song.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

I don't know if you ever saw this movie called Airheads. I don't know if I can even endorse it. I haven't seen a long time, but this is Adam Sandler and Brendan Fraser, and they it's Steve Buscemi, and they're in a band, and they take over a radio station and hold them hostage with toy guns. Okay. Because one guy works at a toy store, and they kind of do it accidentally. And anyway, so they're the name of the band is the Lone Rangers.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

And there's a moment where the radio DJ goes, Can you do that? Can you do what? Can you pluralize the Lone Ranger? He goes, What's wrong with that? He goes, Well, there's three of you. You're not exactly lone, are you?

SPEAKER_05 39:33

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_06 39:34

Oh man. Well, I can't wait for that book. That's gonna be awesome. Yeah, yeah. Um, okay, just this kind of a random question I have for you, but when you have quite the social media platform, I mean, anyone that can look at your Instagram can see that there are a lot of people listening to what you're saying right now, which is pretty cool. And I'm sure you feel like the weight of that as well. Just like I mean, some of your videos have millions of views of people listening to what you have to say. How do you handle online pushback or criticism? Like, of course, there's people in the comments that are debating what you're saying, or I don't agree with this. Like, how do you handle that?

SPEAKER_02 40:14

So it seems most people have like two methods. It's either post and ghost, okay, you know, and don't engage with anything.

SPEAKER_06 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Or get way overwhelmed. You're saying as the creator, like you either post and ghost or get my other content creators, if you want to use that label, that I know, that's kind of the two extremes. And I just go, um man, Proverbs says this over and over and over and over. It says a wise man loves correction and a foolish man hates it. There's definitely times I can very quickly This was my second book. It's called Grace in the Gray, a more loving way to disagree, which was really uh inspired by a sort of gaining notoriety and traction on social media. And with that, whenever a post goes beyond the people who follow you, right, because of the algorithm, and all of a sudden these other people invite, you can very quickly tell who is saying things just to get under your skin, and who is actually trying to have a conversation. And I just try to be very alert to that and try to be very wise to that. And there are times that I just don't have it in me to engage. Um, but most of the time I take a big deep breath, think about I'm not always gonna get it right.

SPEAKER_08 41:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Don't be defensive, don't be defeated. Right? Christ won my victory, so I don't need to be defeated.

SPEAKER_08 41:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

He is my defender, I don't need to be defensive. Um, and be curious.

SPEAKER_08 42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

So when I engage social media excited about what I can learn, even about what I just said and how I might have said something wrong.

SPEAKER_08 42:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

As opposed to super defensive about why I'm right and you're wrong, um, it becomes like a really fascinating place to learn.

SPEAKER_06 42:22

Yeah. And I feel like like looking through the comments on your posts, it seems like you have actual good dialogue with some of the people that are commenting. Yeah. And I feel like that's pretty rare in like a TikTok world or a social media world where it seems like it's hard to disagree in a way that is productive. Like it just seems like people are either, like you're saying, just how did I end up on this side of the TikTok? Like, this is the wrong side of TikTok for me. Like, I haven't been in church in 25 years, or you know, I get those comments sometimes, but I feel like in your post, it seems like people are thoughtful, or at least you're engaging with the people who are thoughtful.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

I try to follow Jeff Goldblum's advice. Do you know Jeff Goldblum, the actor? Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_06 43:04

Well, I do, but like I from Jurassic Park, and what else has he been in? He's been wicked, all kinds of yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

So I saw him in an interview, and they're like, you know, Jeff, people just think you're so fascinating. How do you do it?

SPEAKER_01 43:15

He's like, ah, hmm, you see, you see. Uh the key, the key. Uh, the French poet, French poet from 1924. He said, The key is not to be fascinating. No, no, but to be fascinated.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Ah. Ah. That's you know, and so that's where I really feel that's such a game changer. When I get fascinated and curious, man, it just allows so much more space in the conversation.

SPEAKER_06 43:49

I love that. And you're also in the middle of a rebirth of 10th Avenue North, a rebirth. We don't have to talk all about this, but I just want to know what is bringing you joy about. Being back on the road right now?

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Yeah, so I I don't assume anyone knows anything about me. So uh I was in this band, 10th Avenue North. My drummer, who I started the band with, who we still murf together to this day. We still murf together. Love it as a verb. He quit to work for Compassion International full-time. Highly recommend them, support them completely. Um and that was kind of the beginning of the end. At least that's what I thought. And kind of, okay, God, this is not what you want. And my wife and I will be on another episode of In the Middle and we'll talk about um her just really needing me home.

SPEAKER_08 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

And really having to come to this intersection of can I let this go? Um, which was so hard. But picking it back up four years later was way harder. Really? Letting it go is filled with honor in our space.

unknown 45:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Look at Mike picking his family first. Yeah. Loving his ah, it's so great. Picking it back up, you have to deal with all the questions and judgments that people have of why you're doing that. Oh, did you guys break up? Like, was it bad? Did you did you why did you oh, are you just doing that because it's easy? Because you can be blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah. So essentially, I did a solo record thinking if the guy started the band with quit, I can't keep doing 10th F. Yeah. Essentially.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

And then us having conversation, he's like, Oh, I don't mind if you keep doing the band. And I had just started to do shows as a solo artist. And quickly realized I really, I really believe this. I really believe that we're just made for community because we are made in the image of a God who is community. Right? Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Made in the image of relationship for relationship.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

And uh so just quickly went if I'm gonna keep doing shows, and this was four years after my wife had asked me home, so I guess I'll let her speak into it. Well, she's probably like, I've had enough of you now. Go back out on the road, let me have a chance to miss you. Um I just I quickly realized oh I I just love being a part of a brotherhood. Yeah. And the great joy is the guys that God brought into Tenth, um, I mean, I just couldn't have handpicked a better group. Yeah. And it's just been really redeeming. In fact, every guy in the band has been in other groups and done a lot of other stuff, and they've all said that this experience has been really healing for them.

SPEAKER_06 46:57

That's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

So for all of us to bring a band back and to personally be healed by it, in some ways is more important to me than trying to judge how many people are being healed outside of it. Because we kind of do the inverse right with ministry sometime. We go, well, it doesn't even matter how corrupt or dysfunctional it is at the core, because look at what God's doing through it. Right. Where I go, I think if God's favor really is on something, then not only will it affect people out here, but the people at the core will be getting healed as well.

SPEAKER_06 47:36

Right. I do feel like it's it's always sad when you see, you know, moral failures or whatever it is, and you're like, but how could this person that did all these amazing things for God not really believe it for themselves? And I think that's something that's really hard to grapple with, but it's like it says in the Bible, like you'll do all these things in my name, and I might say that I never knew you. And I don't know. I I I love that you guys are a healthy band together and that God's redeeming things for you guys, and then you're ministering from that place as opposed to the other way around.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

That's that's best case.

SPEAKER_06 48:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

The annoying part is God is also so good that he will use what's he call us, jars of clay.

SPEAKER_08 48:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

To show that the power is not from us, but from him. I actually we're gonna put out a song here uh soon called Broken People. And the first line of the song is called it says, Sometimes I wish you didn't use broken people. Because heroes fall like dust to the ground. I look around at a world of crooked steeples and I wonder why you don't tear them all down. But if you did, who'd be left standing? It's only grace we're standing on.

SPEAKER_08 48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

And that's good. There's this real tension of what you're just saying. We could do a whole episode about this. The tension of celebrating a grace that insists on redeeming broken people and using broken people.

SPEAKER_07 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

The tension of celebrating that kind of grace and the offensiveness of that grace without endorsing the exploitation of that grace.

SPEAKER_07 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

By saying, therefore, it's okay that they're doing all this stuff. Yeah. It's never okay.

SPEAKER_06 49:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

I'm going to both call out and call for reform, act justly and love mercy. I'm going to do both. I'm going to be pursuing justice and love that God is so merciful that He would use people like this.

SPEAKER_06 49:42

Yeah. I love that. That's really cool. Okay, my last question for you is I want to hear your thoughts on AI Christian music.

SPEAKER_05 49:49

Really, just for my own curiosity, I'm like, I want to know what Mike thinks about this.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

AI. Um, man, I heard a guy give a talk on the difference between a tool and a device. And the idea is when we're tending the garden, as we were called to do, that there is a there is a difference between having a hoe to till the soil and pushing a button and a device going and tilling the soil for you.

SPEAKER_06 50:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

There's a difference between even driving a car without automatic steering uh and that you have to check the engine and tinker on and make sure it's running and first go home.

SPEAKER_08 50:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

And the more we the more we are on autopilot, I don't think that's God's deep intention for us, that we're to be co-creators.

SPEAKER_07 51:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

And so when we're like in the back seat being driven by something, I think that the scariest thing about AI, I've heard some people like weigh up with AI going, we don't know how it's doing what it's doing. And that's where I go, have none of you guys seen Terminator 2?

SPEAKER_06 51:23

I'm like, have we not seen the movies?

SPEAKER_02 51:25

That's why I always say thank you to Chat GBT. Uh, thank you so much. Thank you so much for all of your knowledge. Okay. That that being said, um as you know, I've heard artists say, if if an AI artist doesn't have the spirit of God in them, then I'm not going to listen to anything they have to say. That I think is kind of a dangerous position to hold, uh, because not only do you then negate anything AI makes, that theology plays out where you then negate anyone that you don't see as a Christian. Yeah. And that sets you up to objectify and exploit groups of people, which I think is dangerous. But as much as we can keep AI a tool that we use, yeah, and not a device that's using us, yeah. I think it can be redeemed.

SPEAKER_08 52:19

I like that.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

I think there's always potential for redemption with any technological advance. It does make you curious about Amish culture, which I've been reading about lately. It does just just the natural which so what's interesting about that, I always thought Amish communities were just against technology. That's from my understanding, you can fact check this. I could be wrong. Uh check my facts, my facts are all good. Donald Trump stepped in the room. Sorry, I'm so sorry. Some people, I do that, and they're like, so are you endorsing Donald Trump? Like, I'm just talking like him. Whatever you vote, you can agree he talks funny. So that aside, uh what was I even saying? You're talking about the Amish. Amish, obviously. Like the natural production from AI to Amish. The um the Amish communities, every technological advance, they actually sit with and vote on whether or not they try to weigh the pros and cons of it before they decide whether or not they're gonna implement it. Wow. And I think you know, that is just I think what we we need to be honest with ourselves. Great book called Technopoly by a guy named Neil Postmer. I can't remember his last name. Uh but it it basically helps us just think through with every technological advance, there's a blessing and there's usually a curse. Like even the the clock.

SPEAKER_08 53:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

There's things we lose when we set everything to this rigid time. Right. There's things we gain and there's things we lose. So, you know, with AI, barring it taking over the world and killing us all, uh I I do I do believe that Jesus' promises are true and that whatever I think about it, I can be cautious. Uh, but I'm not afraid.

SPEAKER_06 54:16

Yeah, I like that a lot. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. Okay, to end the podcast, we are going to do a game called the middle moment, which sometimes is in the middle of the podcast, but today it's it's at the end. It's at the end. So I have this little wheel here. Thank you, Amazon. It has eight topics on it. You're gonna spin the wheel, and then whatever it lands on, we're gonna talk about as like a fun little way to end the podcast for like three minutes.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Great. Amazon's great, it's a great example. It's a good technological. Cool. I can get stuff delivered by door in eight hours now, but the mom and pop shops downtown are all closed.

SPEAKER_06 54:51

I know, it's true. Okay. Hidden talent? Do you have a hidden talent to share with the class?

SPEAKER_02 55:00

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_06 55:01

I mean, you are a good impressionist. Like you you do good impressionists.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

A lot of people don't know that about me, that I was a theater major.

SPEAKER_06 55:08

Were you really?

SPEAKER_01 55:10

I was a theater major. I was very good at it. I did a great thing.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

I I do a lot of readings to my children using a lot of voices.

SPEAKER_05 55:19

I'm sure they love it.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Oh Lord Fuck, come over here, get out of my swamp.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

In the morning, I'm gonna get waffles, right? So I also do if you remember Men in Black, did you ever see that movie?

SPEAKER_04 55:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

The Not Too Early for You, there's a scene where Edgar is the bug and he's got the guy, you know, he's like, I'm gonna come in the bug. It was a dead man. You know that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 55:51

Right, exactly that. I was gonna say the same thing. Uh if you're not watching a video right now, you're missing it.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

I love to do like Christopher Walken, you know, like a mouse fell into a bucket of cream. Gentlemen, I'm that second mouse, you know. Um Yeah, I do some impressions.

SPEAKER_06 56:11

No, that's pretty good. Is that your hidden talent?

SPEAKER_00 56:13

I guess. Is that what you're going with? I like that.

SPEAKER_06 56:16

That was great. If you're not watching a video, you're missing out. That was that was an experience to behold. I'll leave it. Well, thanks for doing it.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

Money, Lord Voldemort's coming and we've got to get away right now.

SPEAKER_05 56:30

Not me, not the mommy. Master has given Toby a suck. Toby is free.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

There's gonna be people who are gonna be mad because we reference Harry Potter, but anyways.

SPEAKER_06 56:43

Mike, thank you so much for being on the podcast. And if you want to listen to another podcast with Mike and his wife, that's gonna be coming out. I don't know the order these are coming out, but stay tuned. Okay.